Investing in Ink 'lines'--What's your take?

[Looser]

The inspiration for this chat is a result of Heidi's current thread on the new Distress Ink color for April & a post from Sadie. Thanks to both & please check out the thread.

Now... For purposes of this discussion, I will ask posters to stick with inks in pad form, but feel free to refer to paints & such in a general way. And this discussion is not limited to a specific company or its line(s) of inkpads. OK?

When I first began stamping in the 80s, I came from a painting background and ink was a 'new' experience for me. Since I already had tons of different colors of paint, I knew I could use them with my stamps. So I bought very few colors of pad inks. Black & brown were sufficient for doing the actual stamping. Coloring the image did not require me to go beyond those 2 colors for quite awhile. Then I began to seriously explore stamping on its own..

Jump ahead to today & there are several inkpad mfrs that are doing what paint mfrs did in the 80s--adding tons of 'new' colors every time you turn around.  And even crayon mfrs kept adding new colors. Both occasionally dropped a color--to the outrage of many fans--but their goal was to sell product. 

Seems to me the ink mfrs are doing the same thing. That's fine. They are business people & the Craft Industry is 'business'.

Unlike other forms of pigment, inkpad ink is not always as easy to mix as paints & such--especially for the begining or less-experienced stamper. But many of us here @ AI know that we can play with our inkpad colors. we can mix them & more if we need to without necessarily 'contaiminating' a pad.

So when we see mfrs continuing to add to their color lines, we may question whether we need to add every new color. And as consumers & artists we begin to wonder if they will drop some existing ones.

For those who prefer to do work without always needing to 'build' a color, this is a real concern.

So... that's a start for this chat. I'm looking forward to hearing what my fellow Inksters have to say about this topic.

And don't be afraid to talk about specific companies & lines--i.e Ranger/Distress Inks. It's fine! Who knows. We can always contact a company & let them see what their consumers are thinking & saying!

[CarefreeSadie]

Up until the last couple of years I never owned every color in ink or paint.  I started with a brown and black ink pad and some EK success colored pencils.  I added Tombows after I had been stamping for many years.  My first ink pads were Archival ink by Ranger, LOL!  I got the black and brown and then realized they made other colors which I bought in the basic colors, maybe 10 pads in various colors.  I then bought some ink pads that had scents (no longer made) but it turns out they were also by Ranger.  I still have those by the way.  Then I purchased various other pads in different colors that I wanted to use.  I never went about purchasing the entire range of colors from any company.  Then I saw some Whisper pads that came in a set (about 10 years ago) and purchased those.  They actually work quite well for lighter colors.  Most of my first ink pads were purchased from our one local scrapbooking store which since has closed, there was no internet for years.

Now I own all the distress ink pads (most in the minis)  I like having all the colors, the thing is though, do I "need" all the colors?  Do I use all the colors?  Or am I just buying into the marketing that says I might need all the colors so I should buy them and have them on hand?  I got by fine before having all the colors.  This is always the question with me and buying stuff.  I really don't need these things, but I want them and do use them.  I very seldom buy the reinkers so when these pads go dry they will be gone, it is usually cheaper to buy a new pad for me then to buy the reinkers.  And having a whole range of reinkers means I need to store them someplace.  LOL! 

I purchased the memento inks in the small size and have really enjoyed having and using them too.  They complement the distress and are brighter colors.  I really am not in the market for any other ink pads right now.  I have looked at the hero arts pads and the simon says pads but I don't really see anything that much different then what I own to make me want to purchase more. 

The only ink pad I have ever owned that went dry was the white one, and it didn't work that well when it was brand new so I am assuming I will be using these ink pads for a long time.  If the companies (Ranger and Memento) quit making them I don't know if I would rush out and buy reinkers for the colors I have or just let them go dry and throw them out knowing that some other company would come out with something similar that I could replace them with.

The marketing of the distress ink pads is just a genius idea and this year I bet a lot of people do just purchase the entire set, including the mediums that they don't normally have on hand.  I am pretty sure Ranger did this with the idea people want these new colors now so will preorder with all the mediums in the release.  After they get 12 distress sprays the majority statistically will go out and purchase the entire range of colors in the different mediums.  It would be interesting to see the research on this idea, how many people after rushing to get the preorder of all mediums also purchase the rest of the collection of colors in all the mediums?  After following scrapbooking boards for many years there is a big rush to purchase anything right this instant that other people rave about, so I wonder if Ranger is not counting on this reaction to getting more distress out the door.

Don't get me wrong I really like my distress products and use them a lot.  I just find the marketing interesting that is being done especially this year with the preorder of the new colors when the preorder includes all the mediums.

Rambling again, sorry! 

   

[howdyheidi]

I am no marketing person, but I definitely think that Ranger knew what they were doing with this one color a month thing.  I think 60 colors of distress ink is overkill.  I love having a huge variety of colors, but even this is really too much for me to actually purchase.

Daniel does have a really good point though.  With inkpads and stamping, it is much more difficult to get the color you want by mixing.  So it often makes sense to have many colors of ink pads. 

I have a lot of inks.  The only one I have the entire line of is the Avery Elle inkpads.  Those were gifts.  This ink line is interesting because according to the color wheel, there are big gaps, but for stamping they are great since i mostly stamp flowers and so on, I don't need the whole range.

As far as colors retiring, I think that is fine.  There are colors that go in and out of use across fashion and crafting.  You could always buy the reinker if you really love it.  So long as they don't retire the entire line...

However, isn't that what Ranger is doing with their Adirondack line? 

And what I worry about is if you buy a color you really like from one of the smaller companies (now that everyone is making ink pads).  They really probably aren't going to survive, so does it make sense to buy the color you like with a reinker, or just buy from the big companies like Tsukaneko?

[Looser]

I am sooo loving your posts. They are all thoughtful, well written & raise lots of points & questions! Thanks to all of my fellow AIs for their input.

Heidi talks about lots of (stamp) companies making their own lines of ink.  I suspect that those companies are just having large ink mfrs. produce their 'lines'. It's a form of 'licensing' & I only learned that when I was a working designer back in the 90s.

Companies would hire the ink mfr to produce a line of colors & then market them under their name. For instance... Hampton Art Stamps' inks came from Stewart Superior, but marketed under Hampton's name with no mention of 'SS'.

Are all farmed out ink fomulas unique to a particular Brand? I don't know, but I do have a non-craft example to share...

In the 70s I worked in a commercial bread & roll bakery. The company had a contract to produce bread & rolls under the name of a local grocery chain. For a while the dough recipe was a bit different from that the bakery used for its own brand. Then we dropped the chain's recipe & used ours to make the chain's product. The only thing that was different was the label.

I suspect that's true for lots of small batch ink lines. But what may also be true is that the original company still owns the rights to specific formulas. Even when they are no longer being produced for sale, the formulas still exist. They can be sold & ressurected.

The same is true for stamps. Just because a company stops producing particular images doesn't mean they are gone forever. So long as the moulds remain intact they can be re-issued if someone wants to.

My point? 'Retired' doesn't necessarily mean 'dead & gone' forever. With the continued growth of the Internet, consumers have even more ways to use the '$ clout' by letting companies know what they want. Even when wishes are not met, it's a way to serve notice when enough  of us take the time to speak up.

Worried that a fave something is going to go "bye bye"? Tell you friends! Tell the company! Do something about it.

Back to topic... Heidi's threads on the new DI colors has gotten nice attention. Her current one about 'Fossilized Amber' is getting very interesting. WTG, Heidi & posters!

Her DI thread has been useful in my own evaluation of how I view my need for both colors & lines of colors from a specific source. 

[howdyheidi]

Daniel, I think we may have talked about this before, but I do think that the ink is manufactured primarily by just a few companies.  For example, the Hero Arts, SimonSaysStamp and Gina K inks all are packaged in pretty identical looking containers (and others).  The inks are pretty similar, if not the same formulation IMO.  All of those brands, you can buy the reinker.

I also think Colorbox makes inks for Anna Griffin and Doodlebug?

[Looser]

Daniel, I think we may have talked about this before, but I do think that the ink is manufactured primarily by just a few companies.  For example, the Hero Arts, SimonSaysStamp and Gina K inks all are packaged in pretty identical looking containers (and others).  The inks are pretty similar, if not the same formulation IMO.  All of those brands, you can buy the reinker.

I also think Colorbox makes inks for Anna Griffin and Doodlebug?

Your post is perfect timing, Heidi!

I just finished doing a search of Stewart Superior. Completely forgot that they mfr'd 'Memories' inks. Found lots of interesting stuff. I append some links:

Memories Lines--colors/types

Surface Chart

Distressing with Memories Inks

I'm particularly interested in going back to the 'distressed' article since I can see it relating to using DIs in a way I'd not tried.

For good measure... SS links

[howdyheidi]

Here is an interesting link about Hero Arts and Stewart Superior:

http://www.splitcoaststampers.com/forums/tool-product-talk-f128/hero-arts-shadow-inks-stewart-superior-memories-dye-ink-same-ink-t555829.html

[Looser]

WTG, Heidi! Very cool that you explored & shared!

Very interesting how that 'contract' worked.

[CarefreeSadie]

Having many different brands of ink produced by the same company and labeled under another company's name is not a new concept at all.  Almost all non brand names of products are produced by the brand name producers.  Look at refrigerators, electronics, car parts, and many different household items.  One car part producer makes the same car door that goes on a chevy model, a ford model, a Chrysler model, and perhaps other makes.  The same refrigerator is produced and marketed under several brands; whirlpool and the sears brand were the same for years, just different names on them.  Sam's Club and Walmart sell Member's Mark products which are produced by other name brand producers.  The things marked made in China are probably made at only 2 or 3 different large manufacturing plants in China for many different companies.  And it seems that many of our craft products are produced in China unfortunately. 

Now Ranger is actually promoted as their products are made in the US:  "Ranger is very proud that all our inks, embossing powders, paints, mediums, dimensional glitters, glues and stamp cleaners are manufactured right here in the USA. These products are made in our facility located in Tinton Falls, New Jersey.
 Ranger was founded in 1929 and originally manufactured an exclusive line of commercial ink products for the U.S. banking industry. In 1979, Ranger developed the first art stamp pads in unique, vibrant colors. Until 1998, Ranger¹s primary business was private label products for stamp manufacturers. Ranger then began marketing product lines of its own beginning with inks and eventually developing embossing powders. With a continuous focus on innovation, successful lines such as the Adirondack® and Distress™ family of products, Perfect Pearls™ pigment powders and mists, and Melt Art® products have become popular worldwide."

For me the fact that Ranger produces all their products in the US makes me want to support their efforts.....yes that is the ticket, that must be why I like their products so well!  Truthfully though I do like the idea of their products being made in the US.  We have so few products that are actually made in the US that when I find one I want to support them.

The Paper Artsy paint (produced in the UK) has 82 different colors......LOL  I have quite a few but there is no way that I would want all 82 unless they gave them to me.  It's the same way with distress ink....I wouldn't have as many as I do if they wouldn't have come out with the mini's,  I only have the first 12 in regular size pads and then of course the first 3 new colors this year.  I probably have 10 of the stain colors and all of the paint colors.  I find myself using paint a lot in my crafting, probably not enough to justify the amount of paint I own but hopefully I will have them for many years to come.  I have put off purchasing the stain because I like it but not as well as I like the distress paint. 

It is such a personal choice of what product a person wants to have available to them and which product they just are not interested in enough to buy the full line.  I do think though that the internet has played a big part in Ranger's success with the different youtube videos showing how to use their product and their name designers.  Dyan, Dina, Tim, and Wendy go to the shows and do demos as well as posting on their own blogs and Rangers youtube channel.  Dina wakely demoed all the different products before she got her own stamps, stencils, and paint line.  I have never seen Dyan Reavely demo any product but her own sprays, stamps, and stencils and now paints.  Wendy Venchi has always demoed the inks and embossing powders that were sold under Rangers name.  This year is the first year that I have noticed that she now has the ink and embossing powders under her own name.  Tim Holtz has demoed the melting pot, the Ranger embossing powders, and there was some other product I saw him demo that was not under the Tim Holtz brand so he has demoed other Ranger product besides his brand.  Dina, Dyan, and Tim are great teachers when they demo.  They have charisma, charm, and knowledge.  They help sell the products they demo. 

If you do a search on youtube for Claudine Hellmuth paints (made by Ranger) only about 4 come up from Ranger and done by Claudine Hellmuth with the newest one being four years ago.......Ranger has changed their marketing to include the "names" that are on the products so the people buying their products feel like they "know" Tim, Dina, Dyan, and Wendy......we don't really but their personalities shine through when they demo and make us feel like we "know" them and then we feel comfortable buying their products because we have seen them use them and they have told us how much they like their products as they are using them.  I think in the marketplace today this is the key and Ranger has found the perfect keyholders for right now. 

So after all that rambling do I need the entire line.....no probably not.....do I want it after seeing these keyholders show me how to use it......oh yes, just genius marketing.......   

[Looser]

Love your rambles, Sadie! TY!

As a CPD (Certified Product Demonstrator) I did my share of selling stuff to both retailers & individuals. Some of us demonstrators often said we could sell the un-needed easiest to the un-knowing. This was when the internet was in its early stages. Note. We weren't selling stuff we didn't believe in. But we knew that the general public would buy into a product when the 'commercial' was done well. And that's still true IMO.

What's fun is that sites like AI have aspects of that 'commercial contact', but also has members of its group who contribute other p.o.v. without making the topic an 'either/or'. 

[Craft Nerd]

I have to admit to being the 64 Crayola box of crayons kinda girl.  Although I'm pretty sure they have a bigger box now but when I was a kid that was the biggest box.  And of course, I only used probably about a third of the crayons in the box.  But I am so drawn to an array of colors.  And when I first started stamping, I was the opposite of Daniel.  I bought a bunch of sets of colored inks.  I have a ton of the Versamagic chalk inks and Brillance inks in the dew drops sizes, and several sets of Colorbox pigment inks.  But I have found that I'm using them less and less.   Now part of that is that the type of stamping I do has evolved.  When I first started I bought a lot of solid images, so having colored ink for them was more important.  But now that I have a ton of Copics, I tend to go for images I can color with those, so I use black or brown most often. 

So as I've gotten more experienced as a stamper, I've become more selective about the inks that I buy.  I will still pick up an ink if I really like the color.  But I try not to be sucked into my tendency to want all the colors. 

As for the distress inks, I have quite a few but not all of them.  And for the most part, I use the colors I have (except for a couple that were not the color I was looking for when I bought them.  When I buy new colors, it is because there is a whole in my color wheel that I want to fill. 

And I'm going to do my environmental pitch for reinkers.  I am a big fan of reinkers because it means less junk ending up in land fills.  If it is a color that I use and the pad has dried up, I will buy the reinker.  I was really bummed when my Brillance Lime Green dried up and I couldn't find a reinker for it and had to buy a new pad. 

One more thing, I have to admit that while I've come to realize that I don't need all the colors, I'm still so tempted by new colors.  I'm like a magpie with bright shiny objects when it comes to pretty colors.  And I am so tempted by the new ombre ink pads by Hero Arts.   

[yellowcherrios]

I have just lately figured out that many of the inks are made by the big name ink companies when looking for a white ink pad to try.  Thank you for sharing which companies make some of the other ink pads too.  Is Memories sold only online?  I do not recall seeing them in the store lately--I want to say I remember seeing them years ago in Michaels I think.

I am all about using things in life and crafting that have more than one purpose, thus I have really enjoyed the distress inks......and one thing side thing about the marketing of them---the naming of them (for me) REALLY kept me from buying any of them for a year or two---"worn lipstick" and "peeled paint"--these give me images of distress/faded colors (I know that was probably the point).  It wasn't until I saw a bright card Anna-Karin made and she told me that there are some bright/vivid colors in the DI line and encouraged me to try them out.  Thus I ignored the names and just looked at the colors and that was when I started to see them for what they were--"vintage photo" wasn't a color that makes everything age---it was a reddish-brown color and nothing else!  It only helped age something if that was how you used it.  This reframing of how I saw the DI changed how I approached it and helped me start using them---and I am glad, b/c I love using them!

But back to the inks having more than one purpose---though I first bought DI for coloring/shading, I have really enjoyed learning other things like the watercoloring using them.  But now I am trying to remember that the other inks can also be used to color/shade.  I usually do not think to grab my pigment inks to color a stamped image--thus I have made a swatch of all my dye and pigment inks and hung it on the wall hoping that helps remind me to color with them.  I noticed that if I use an item to color stamps/cards, then I usually want/"need" a whole array of colors; if I just use the item to stamp, I tend not to need each color that's made.  (so maybe trying to get myself to use pigment inks to color might not be good for my wallet, lol).

One thing I would like to try is the dylusions ink spray pad....since I have a few ink sprays, I think it'd be neat to use them to stamp as well....but, just like with the other ink pads being rebranded, I have been wondering if I could just use Cut N' Dry foam and do the same thing as the Dylsuions ink spray pad. 

I have almost all the DI line---being "late-to-the-game" does have the advantage of finding many DIs on clearance in stores .  And though I use distress inks to color mainly (thus why I need so many colors, lol), weirdly I was kinda bummed when Ranger announced more colors for this year,---I was thinking that I only had a handful or so left to collect---and now there's more!  So this marketing move Ranger is doing this year, has helped me to step back and look---was I "collecting" them and why, and do I still want to be? or am I just getting sucked into the psychology of marketing (which I think would be nice if a class about the "psychology of marketing" was offered somewhere in all of our studies in school).  I do use all the colors I have (though I find "spun sugar" and "milled lavender" so light to use) and enjoy having many colors of DI to use---but I do now have a good representation of each color group and shades. 

I only have a handful of other ink lines, usually in the small/mini pads.  I will say that I bought a red Avery Elle recently and was pleasantly surprised on it's performance, so I really might be looking into getting more of that line----does Avery Elle make their own ink does any one know? 

[yellowcherrios]

Lol!  My rambling made me forget one of the points I wanted to make with the Dylusions Ink Spray pad...     

I know that ink sprays are yet another tool line to use to color and buy, but there are many crafters that make their own color sprays using different mediums they already own and so the advantage I saw with possibly using the ink spray pad was you can create various ink pads with another medium and ones that could match your sprays if needed.  Other than using spray, I guess ink droppers would be another way to get medium color onto a DIY ink pad.

[CarefreeSadie]

Avery Elle's ink in produced is Taiwan......there are many ink pad producers in Taiwan, Here is a listing of manufacturers of ink pads and other craft supplies from Taiwan and China, I would assume one of these companies or a similar company makes Avery Elle's ink pads.

[howdyheidi]

It is my understanding that the Avery Elle pigment inks and the Mama Elephant Pigment inks are the same.  I have the Avery Elle line and I am happy with it.  I have started collecting the reinkers for that line. 

I am enjoying this thread! 

Yes, the new colors coming out do help us wonder why we wanted them all in the first place. I also love having all the colors of crayons, however, crayons are WAY CHEAPER than many of these crafting products. 

Excellent discussions and I am going to check out Sadie's link.